NM Hell Fallen NM - Master planner (i like those boots!)

[Xanax200mg]

well, the thing is, that MP or not, it doesn't really change...

The dunjeon itself is pretty easy and straight forward.
Basically, all players need to have their builds for MP from the begining, and it will work on first try...
...or last boss will bugg, and it won't work at all.

[Xanax200mg]

http://www.lomsglobal.com/index.php?thr ... ctics.140/

Here is a good guide for this dunjeon.
Let me know who would be interested in studying this, and having a go?

I will postepone this "event" to a later date, when we have a team ready. ^^

[Uragon]

well, the thing is, that MP or not, it doesn't really change...

That's a very bold statement to make. I don't claim to be super experienced in this dungeon, given I have done maybe 3 failed regular NM runs of it as solo healer. But I do find that changing the team's build does make the team much more effective for the individual fights. Specifically at least my healing loadout does change significantly for the last fight, as it does require very high, single-target healing.

The LoMS guide is a good link, we have been using it a fair bit for our runs as well. But you should take the advice to heart to go for the lower hanging fruit first. I for sure aren't comfortable to dive into MP attempts before even clearing it once the normal way.

[Kisshoten]

well, the thing is, that MP or not, it doesn't really change...

The dunjeon itself is pretty easy and straight forward.
Basically, all players need to have their builds for MP from the begining, and it will work on first try...
...or last boss will bugg, and it won't work at all.

Sorry to ask it this bluntly, but which roles have you tried while attempting to beat this dungeon?

As I've said before, builds will change because people are not experienced and/or familiar with the encounters yet, so saying we use these builds and start with MP right away is IMHO asking for too much. Usually you do MP when you are familiar with ALL the encounters and are able to beat all bosses with just 1 build. This means that Tank, Healer and Impair DD need to be familiar with all encounters and have enough confidence that their 1 build is good enough to beat/survive all bosses.

[fig]

The LOMs guide also missed a couple key factor to surviving the bosses: Support and Hinders.
Having you P/S DPS slot backup drone and some shotty hinders, as well as some quick stacking debils, can make all the difference in a few of the fights. You might lose DA or BS, but given the structure of these fights, that's probably OK.

[TheBerch]

I mean ... id have no problem going in for dem heals. But it doesnt look like people wana do it

Most players have never beaten this dungeon, so most likely going straight for Master Planner is not something that those are willing to commit themselves to.

I don't mean to sound full of myself here, but I never had trouble with this dungeon. And the first time I went at it I did MP as well. Maybe its easier for healers, I can't say for sure or I just know where I should be at the right time. Call it dumb luck call it experience call it having a good build. But doing mp on your first go is something i would recomend only because of this. If you fail I gurantee you will fly through most of it on your second go. But I duno I could just be talking out of my ass here. I mean no offense either. People think you need experience though it helps. But you really don't. Everyone who has gotten as far as this dungeon should be experienced enough. And after you die once or twice you will or should know what to do or what not to do. It all comes down to the deck /build your using. I've seen healers keep up with me with healing when they have almsot 11k hp. So who knows.

[Riora]

I mean ... id have no problem going in for dem heals. But it doesnt look like people wana do it

Most players have never beaten this dungeon, so most likely going straight for Master Planner is not something that those are willing to commit themselves to.

I don't mean to sound full of myself here, but I never had trouble with this dungeon. And the first time I went at it I did MP as well. Maybe its easier for healers, I can't say for sure or I just know where I should be at the right time. Call it dumb luck call it experience call it having a good build. But doing mp on your first go is something i would recomend only because of this. If you fail I gurantee you will fly through most of it on your second go. But I duno I could just be talking out of my ass here. I mean no offense either. People think you need experience though it helps. But you really don't. Everyone who has gotten as far as this dungeon should be experienced enough. And after you die once or twice you will or should know what to do or what not to do. It all comes down to the deck /build your using. I've seen healers keep up with me with healing when they have almsot 11k hp. So who knows.

As someone who has also healed HF, let me tell you - solohealing it does not come down to build, or experience, or being awesome. Those things definitely help, but they won't carry a team on your very first time.

What you had was a good tank for whom the dungeon was likely not the first time. That's just the vibe I'm getting here, because healing HF with inexperienced tanks is about the worst hell on earth. So much damage from HF can be mitigated with smart movement, yet careless movements also have the potential to wipe the group, so you have to know what you're doing. And a first time tank won't know. More than likely they'll just stand there and eat every single attack right to the face.

So, so much of the pressure of HF is on the tank, and they suffer the most from MP restrictions. Fist or bloodhealers almost never change their builds, so of course you didn't feel the sting of it.

There is literally nothing recommendable about doing MP on your first time. Constricting your ability to adapt to the dungeon to prove...what? And then, if you break the MP so you can successfully clear the dungeon, you turn a triumphant moment into one tinged with failure.

Annnyhow, I'll repeat here what I said in another thread on HF - trinity setup is not the best idea here. Try Healtank + Healer, or 2 healers + 2 DPS. ~Experiment~ until you succeed. Don't MP it yet

[TheBerch]

As someone who has also healed HF, let me tell you - solohealing it does not come down to build, or experience, or being awesome. Those things definitely help, but they won't carry a team on your very first time.

What you had was a good tank for whom the dungeon was likely not the first time. That's just the vibe I'm getting here, because healing HF with inexperienced tanks is about the worst hell on earth. So much damage from HF can be mitigated with smart movement, yet careless movements also have the potential to wipe the group, so you have to know what you're doing. And a first time tank won't know. More than likely they'll just stand there and eat every single attack right to the face.

So, so much of the pressure of HF is on the tank, and they suffer the most from MP restrictions. Fist or bloodhealers almost never change their builds, so of course you didn't feel the sting of it.

There is literally nothing recommendable about doing MP on your first time. Constricting your ability to adapt to the dungeon to prove...what? And then, if you break the MP so you can successfully clear the dungeon, you turn a triumphant moment into one tinged with failure.

Annnyhow, I'll repeat here what I said in another thread on HF - trinity setup is not the best idea here. Try Healtank + Healer, or 2 healers + 2 DPS. ~Experiment~ until you succeed. Don't MP it yet

My advice, MP it till your blue in the face. Whats the worst that happens? You fail MP but still beat the dungeon. Now I have completed MP for every dungeon, but before that, I asked EVERY SINGLE TIME, if my team minded doing MP. 80% of the time, they will say, "sure ... go ahead". You got nothing to lose, so always ask to do mp, and if you fail, nothing bad happens.

[Uragon]

Sorry, but that's just plain bad advice you're giving now, Berch. Sure that thing can work with the "right" kind of group, but my usual experience is the contrary. Folks that end up "blue in the face" usually aren't having fun.

[Xanax200mg]

hmmm...

I tend to agree with everyone of you... I am not really asking for a team to MP it on the first try.
I just wanted to gather some of you who wished to give it a go...

And if we fail, meh...

3 possible oitcomes:
1. we succeed, order pizza, and party!
2. we clear the dunjeon, but without the MP...
3. we fail, and... and try again some other time. Reschedule another event and have another go at it.
No biggie. It's a game full of challenges, and it's fun.

It's acutally not so fun running a dunjeon for the first time juast doing regular DPS when the other 4 player have all the strats down, and will swimm through every single boss on their first go undependently of you being dead or not...

Please just lemme know if you're down for the challenge of MPing HF.

and let's try this next week.... say, Tuesday 11:00 CET! ^^

If not, I'll keep trying with pugs, as I always do... :\ but I like to play with 9S members usually. I think that's the whole point of a guilde.